<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I liked it. Thanks for sharing your opinion, I guess.Originally posted by Paraflam:
Another technically amazing player who suffers from " because I can syndrome". Give me Ignacio Berroa, Steve Berrios, or Alex Acuna anyday. His ideas were not seamless. Again the compositions are not great, simply composed to showcase the drummer. I need more musical content in an amazing musician. Solos that communicate and speak music. Grooves that sit nice and easy and don't rush.
Somone mentioned Ry Cooder. Dafnis can learn a thing or two about musicality and groove from that album. Notice, those are the old cuban musicians, and their groove sits in an amazing place. Makes you feel good. Dafnis groove makes me feel like I just snorted 10lines of coke.
Yeah, in Cuba, they take the musical arts very seriously (unlike the U.S.) and they train kids who want to play drums in polyrhythms as well as traditional rudiments from a very young age.
Obviously, he's been a huge benefactor of this kind of training.
These discussions appear often on HOD about which culture is the best for learning music.
The truth is that in North America (USA & Canada), we have such a melting pot of different cultures that we can "piggyback" on
and get the best of all styles of music to learn from.
Canadians and American musicians go to Cuba and other places to learn different ways of playing, sometimes only to add a fraction of these techniques to their playing. The same goes the other way around, where guys like Dafnis come to the States to add more to their playing .
Imagine how dull it would be if we all played the same style of drumming. Some us us groove more than others, some have the Latin thing down as if they came from a Latin Country, and so on.
The idea is to take as much information from musicians from varied cultural worlds. Drummers like Weckl play the Latin bag much better that 10 years ago. Why ? Because of the opportunity to hear so many styles coming together in our own back yards in recent years. Just ask Gregg Bissonette !
So, IMO, looking at the four video clips of Dafnis posted here, really gives us a chance to see and hear someone who is so different from most other jazz drummers.
Some think he is too busy when playing with his band, but hey, that's his style. I think that it's exciting to see someone of Dafnis' style, just like it was years ago with guys like Art Blakey.
And as in most posts here, do not judge a musician by a couple of video clips. The clips here are not balanced right, the drums come out too loud for the rest of the band. But, do buy the CD, About the Monks, where you will hear these tunes at their best.
And please don't bang Cuba. Our governments do not give us the truth about what is happening there !
Again, as knowledgable and technically proficient as he is, there are latin drummers with much deeper pockets. Negro for example.
Of course this is my opinion, but compare these drummers side by side and it's simple to hear. Give me more feel Dafnis! Something to hold on to. Some depth.
I wouldn't really say that Negro is the definition of pocket... now Ignacio, on the other hand, when i saw him live, his pocket knocked me out... he is so deep [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]
Joey Heredia, that is a guy with sick pocket too [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The truth is that, with few exceptions, the drummers that come out of Cuba blow American drummers away. Like it or lump it. I think I've explained the reason for it. I haven't met Dafnis Prieto, but, I have no doubt that the reason he left Cuba was not as much to expand his musical horizons as to escape Castro. And I for one don't rely on information from the Government about what is going on in Cuba.Originally posted by Groovissimo:
These discussions appear often on HOD about which culture is the best for learning music.
The truth is that in North America (USA & Canada), we have such a melting pot of different cultures that we can "piggyback" on
and get the best of all styles of music to learn from.
Canadians and American musicians go to Cuba and other places to learn different ways of playing, sometimes only to add a fraction of these techniques to their playing. The same goes the other way around, where guys like Dafnis come to the States to add more to their playing .
Imagine how dull it would be if we all played the same style of drumming. Some us us groove more than others, some have the Latin thing down as if they came from a Latin Country, and so on.
The idea is to take as much information from musicians from varied cultural worlds. Drummers like Weckl play the Latin bag much better that 10 years ago. Why ? Because of the opportunity to hear so many styles coming together in our own back yards in recent years. Just ask Gregg Bissonette !
So, IMO, looking at the four video clips of Dafnis posted here, really gives us a chance to see and hear someone who is so different from most other jazz drummers.
Some think he is too busy when playing with his band, but hey, that's his style. I think that it's exciting to see someone of Dafnis' style, just like it was years ago with guys like Art Blakey.
And as in most posts here, do not judge a musician by a couple of video clips. The clips here are not balanced right, the drums come out too loud for the rest of the band. But, do buy the CD, About the Monks, where you will hear these tunes at their best.
And please don't bang Cuba. Our governments do not give us the truth about what is happening there !
Henry, are you out of your mind or just mentally challanged?
The drummers in Cuba blow American drummers away? At what? Cuban music, that's about it. There isn't one Cuban drummer who swings, including Ignacio. There isn't one Cuban drummer who can bring out the funk like Dennis or Derico. There isn't one drummer in Cuba who can handle the variety of music that session guys like Vinnie, Pelton, Jordan or Hass deal with everyday. Have you ever heard Dafnis play a second line groove? I have, and it sucked...Those guys kill their own music, but they can't even begin to be a top session player in NYC, LA, or Nashville.
That was the dumbest statement ever made on this board.
To say any group of drummers from one country blow another group drummers away from another is stupid. I want to see a Cuban drummer play a groove in 23 using 2-3 subdivisions like an all around american player. You'll never hear that. Your musical ignorance equalls your political ignorance.
And as far their dedication to music well, if Dafnis was learning all of those great musical devices at a young age in Cuba, I'd expect a bit more music, and a bit less cluttered silliness, out of him than what I've heard. Steve Berrios makes Dafnis look like a musical infant by playing one bar of Timba. Steve's a latino from Brooklyn. Giovanni Hidalgo is the best conguero in the world, he's Puerto Rican. Not cuban. He's also lived in the main land for most of his life.
You're also wrong about their systematic musical upbringing. There's very little system involved, and more about listening copying, and dancing. Go to Cuba Henry, sounds like you've never been. My third time will be this May.
On another note, I agree about the Dafnis groove, but those clips still killed me. He's a great latin drummer that never ceases to blow my mind in that style of latin.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 27, 2005 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Flarobstix ]</font>
[img]graemlins/car.gif[/img] Run! [img]graemlins/plane.gif[/img]
Dafnis is great. I love him on the recent Caribbean Jazz Project stuff. I love that he doesn't play left foot clave and still sounds great!
I've seen him perform live with his group at the Zinc Bar in NYC, he played some of the music on these videos, I believe. I would label the music 'cerebral'.
He plays like the Cubans are coming to take him away, though, LOL!
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Flab,Originally posted by Flarobstix:
Henry, are you out of your mind or just mentally challanged?
The drummers in Cuba blow American drummers away? At what? Cuban music, that's about it. There isn't one Cuban drummer who swings, including Ignacio. There isn't one Cuban drummer who can bring out the funk like Dennis or Derico. There isn't one drummer in Cuba who can handle the variety of music that session guys like Vinnie, Pelton, Jordan or Hass deal with everyday. Have you ever heard Dafnis play a second line groove? I have, and it sucked...Those guys kill their own music, but they can't even begin to be a top session player in NYC, LA, or Nashville.
That was the dumbest statement ever made on this board.
To say any group of drummers from one country blow another group drummers away from another is stupid. I want to see a Cuban drummer play a groove in 23 using 2-3 subdivisions like an all around american player. You'll never hear that. Your musical ignorance equalls your political ignorance.
And as far their dedication to music well, if Dafnis was learning all of those great musical devices at a young age in Cuba, I'd expect a bit more music, and a bit less cluttered silliness, out of him than what I've heard. Steve Berrios makes Dafnis look like a musical infant by playing one bar of Timba. Steve's a latino from Brooklyn. Giovanni Hidalgo is the best conguero in the world, he's Puerto Rican. Not cuban. He's also lived in the main land for most of his life.
You're also wrong about their systematic musical upbringing. There's very little system involved, and more about listening copying, and dancing. Go to Cuba Henry, sounds like you've never been. My third time will be this May.
On another note, I agree about the Dafnis groove, but those clips still killed me. He's a great latin drummer that never ceases to blow my mind in that style of latin.
<font color="#a62a2a"><font size="1">[ December 27, 2005 01:44 AM: Message edited by: Flarobstix ]</font></font>
First, I am supremely confident in my intellect and my political acumen. Second, I'm not going to argue with you about this subject. I'm speaking from personal experience and observation. However, I will say, in no uncertain terms, that you have no idea what you are talking about.
<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ December 27, 2005 10:17 AM: Message edited by: Henry II ]</font>
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